So I just finished last night, and my impression of the porch scene with Boo, Heck, and Atticus was only partially about justice in court. Self-defense/involuntary manslaughter, etc. might be necessary IF it were Jem- to be above reproach and the family code of honor. But for Boo, the court issue is secondary. Heck seems to think the ladies of the town will see Boo as a hero for saving the children and his privacy would suffer from that kind of attention, regardless if he’s competent to go through a trial. A trial or public attention of any kind might kill Boo inadvertently from the stress of publicity.
I am behind my time on this one! But I have thought about Atticus’s struggle with justice (on the porch) and his stoicism.
In the very beginning, Atticus talks to Scout about the Ewells not going to school (and hunting out of season) and how they were allowed to “bend the law”. It’s the very end of Chapter 3. He says “Sometimes it’s better to bend the law a little in special cases. In your case, the law remains rigid.” And later “in certain circumstances the common folk judiciously allow them [the Ewells] certain privileges by the simple method of becoming blind to some of the Ewells’ activities.”
Atticus’ struggle on the porch is in no small part due to realizing that the law needs to bend in a place he never expected it to. He’s trying to subject Jem to the law because Atticus sees himself, and his children, as paragons of “the common folk” - the chief temptation of stoicism is toward pride (though isn’t it always?) and Atticus is grasping desperately at the structure of the universe as he understands it, and at his place in it. He’s aggressive and confrontational because his sense of self is slipping away. The minute he realizes what Heck is getting at - that’s it’s Boo who needs the bending - the world rights itself and Atticus can move forward. Heck is inviting him to “become blind” to some of Boo’s activities. That’s something he can understand and get behind.
That moment on the porch is when Atticus’ stoicism threatens to fail him. That it doesn’t is also worth thinking about. But it’s not really mercy for Boo that turns his heart.
As y’all were talking about the Atticus and Heck Tate porch scene, the image of a fighter came to my mind. Atticus is like a boxer or someone who’s had to buck up and then gotten lost in a fight and hasn’t come out of it yet. He’s still punching and in fight mode - and Heck Tate has to shake him out it, to see clearly; it’s the capital “L” Law this time, as y’all were saying (which made me think about the true meaning of equity, a word that’s so popular now).
I also hadn’t really thought about the inversion of the Tom Robinson/Mayella testimony and Boo/Bob/Scout story. Atticus is so ready to believe Scout when she says she thought Jem pulled the man off her. Lots of juxtapositions of characters. I’m not expressing it well, but Harper Lee sure did.
After the episode discussing the rabid dog, I was waiting until we got to the end to comment—
I thought there was a parallel between Atticus and the rabid dog and Boo Radley and the children in regard to the use of strength to protect and restraint as opposed to weakness. The children think of Atticus as too old to participate in the sports/activities of their friends’ fathers, but the scene with the dog shows, although he is older than many of the other fathers, it’s not from being incapable or weak. He shows a restraint in when he uses force. (I think there’s even hints of this in the courtroom—he is a (stoic?) southern gentleman in all his questioning regardless of the behavior of the witnesses.) The stories the children hear of Boo make them fearful of him, believing him to be dangerous. But their encounters with him are gentle until the end when we see Boo does have the ability to hurt but only does so to protect the children. Atticus is willing to use a gun to protect his family and neighbors from the rabid dog; Boo also restrains any force, using it only when needed.
Now I’m thinking about how this also ties to the title. Killing a mockingbird isn’t a sin because it’s dangerous and hard to kill, but because it’s an innocent, which once again elevates restraint. Both Atticus’ and Boo’s actions demonstrate the same kind of virtue that is behind why it is a sin to kill a mockingbird.
Another note: I was watching Roman Holiday this weekend which led to me visiting Gregory Peck’ Wikipedia page where is said that when he agreed to film Mockingbird, he wanted more time on the courtroom scenes, so maybe that’s why those scenes take up so much more room in our memories than they really do in the book.
My grandfather, born in 1919 in bro eastern North Carolina, always called me, boo. Heard that my whole life as a loving family name from other family members as well and always thought it was just a southern thing.
Is it too late for David and Heidi to get tickets and throw together a Close Reads at the Coast event in Oregon? Tide pools, berries, books?
Loved the discussion. Any thoughts on the kids calling their dad Atticus? I always think of the south as very proper: yes ma'am, yes sir. I think one character comments on it, another way Atticus is failing as a parent.
I listened to the podcast while running this morning, then read I Peter 1:22 in my devotions: “Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart.” It seemed like a reminder to practice Christian love, instead of settling in stoicism. Your conversation brought light to my scripture reading!
It was so helpful! Tim’s comment about Atticus often seeming sad has made me reflect more on the distinctiveness of Christian joy in a world that often gives little reason to be joyful
I recently found the CR episodes in The Great Gatsby :)
So I just finished last night, and my impression of the porch scene with Boo, Heck, and Atticus was only partially about justice in court. Self-defense/involuntary manslaughter, etc. might be necessary IF it were Jem- to be above reproach and the family code of honor. But for Boo, the court issue is secondary. Heck seems to think the ladies of the town will see Boo as a hero for saving the children and his privacy would suffer from that kind of attention, regardless if he’s competent to go through a trial. A trial or public attention of any kind might kill Boo inadvertently from the stress of publicity.
I am behind my time on this one! But I have thought about Atticus’s struggle with justice (on the porch) and his stoicism.
In the very beginning, Atticus talks to Scout about the Ewells not going to school (and hunting out of season) and how they were allowed to “bend the law”. It’s the very end of Chapter 3. He says “Sometimes it’s better to bend the law a little in special cases. In your case, the law remains rigid.” And later “in certain circumstances the common folk judiciously allow them [the Ewells] certain privileges by the simple method of becoming blind to some of the Ewells’ activities.”
Atticus’ struggle on the porch is in no small part due to realizing that the law needs to bend in a place he never expected it to. He’s trying to subject Jem to the law because Atticus sees himself, and his children, as paragons of “the common folk” - the chief temptation of stoicism is toward pride (though isn’t it always?) and Atticus is grasping desperately at the structure of the universe as he understands it, and at his place in it. He’s aggressive and confrontational because his sense of self is slipping away. The minute he realizes what Heck is getting at - that’s it’s Boo who needs the bending - the world rights itself and Atticus can move forward. Heck is inviting him to “become blind” to some of Boo’s activities. That’s something he can understand and get behind.
That moment on the porch is when Atticus’ stoicism threatens to fail him. That it doesn’t is also worth thinking about. But it’s not really mercy for Boo that turns his heart.
Just wanted Sean to know I appreciated the “O, Brother Where Art Thou?” references
The discussion of Atticus as a Stoic, and the Stoicness of the South, was fascinating. I learn so much from y'all!
As y’all were talking about the Atticus and Heck Tate porch scene, the image of a fighter came to my mind. Atticus is like a boxer or someone who’s had to buck up and then gotten lost in a fight and hasn’t come out of it yet. He’s still punching and in fight mode - and Heck Tate has to shake him out it, to see clearly; it’s the capital “L” Law this time, as y’all were saying (which made me think about the true meaning of equity, a word that’s so popular now).
I also hadn’t really thought about the inversion of the Tom Robinson/Mayella testimony and Boo/Bob/Scout story. Atticus is so ready to believe Scout when she says she thought Jem pulled the man off her. Lots of juxtapositions of characters. I’m not expressing it well, but Harper Lee sure did.
After the episode discussing the rabid dog, I was waiting until we got to the end to comment—
I thought there was a parallel between Atticus and the rabid dog and Boo Radley and the children in regard to the use of strength to protect and restraint as opposed to weakness. The children think of Atticus as too old to participate in the sports/activities of their friends’ fathers, but the scene with the dog shows, although he is older than many of the other fathers, it’s not from being incapable or weak. He shows a restraint in when he uses force. (I think there’s even hints of this in the courtroom—he is a (stoic?) southern gentleman in all his questioning regardless of the behavior of the witnesses.) The stories the children hear of Boo make them fearful of him, believing him to be dangerous. But their encounters with him are gentle until the end when we see Boo does have the ability to hurt but only does so to protect the children. Atticus is willing to use a gun to protect his family and neighbors from the rabid dog; Boo also restrains any force, using it only when needed.
Now I’m thinking about how this also ties to the title. Killing a mockingbird isn’t a sin because it’s dangerous and hard to kill, but because it’s an innocent, which once again elevates restraint. Both Atticus’ and Boo’s actions demonstrate the same kind of virtue that is behind why it is a sin to kill a mockingbird.
Another note: I was watching Roman Holiday this weekend which led to me visiting Gregory Peck’ Wikipedia page where is said that when he agreed to film Mockingbird, he wanted more time on the courtroom scenes, so maybe that’s why those scenes take up so much more room in our memories than they really do in the book.
My grandfather, born in 1919 in bro eastern North Carolina, always called me, boo. Heard that my whole life as a loving family name from other family members as well and always thought it was just a southern thing.
I always thought they called him Boo because he’s like a ghost. Pale, only comes out at night, mysterious.
Is it too late for David and Heidi to get tickets and throw together a Close Reads at the Coast event in Oregon? Tide pools, berries, books?
Loved the discussion. Any thoughts on the kids calling their dad Atticus? I always think of the south as very proper: yes ma'am, yes sir. I think one character comments on it, another way Atticus is failing as a parent.
I was going to say, I’ll be in Portland Aug. 2-4 - it could be like a CR tag team of OR! Air fives to Sean and the fam!
I really just want to spot them out somewhere and have my toddler walk up and whisper "Ayn Rand" or "Go Set a Watchman" and see what happens ;)
I listened to the podcast while running this morning, then read I Peter 1:22 in my devotions: “Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart.” It seemed like a reminder to practice Christian love, instead of settling in stoicism. Your conversation brought light to my scripture reading!
It was so helpful! Tim’s comment about Atticus often seeming sad has made me reflect more on the distinctiveness of Christian joy in a world that often gives little reason to be joyful
Agreed! That was really interesting!