This week’s episode features a new occasional segment tentatively called “Letters to the Editors” (help us come up with something better!). So click play and tune in as we give the floor to a few listeners who disagree with us . . . and then let conversation flow, of course. Happy listening!
There was a comment made on this episode, something to the effect of the daughter needing to save the father, in this story line. Which kind of got my thinking, if one were to squint really really hard could an argument be made for the Warden and Beauty and the Beast being the same story? ... maybe? In broad strokes, with the Warden being told more from the Father’s POV instead of Belle’s? You have a father that gets in a pickle with a bad-ish guy. The bad guy lets the dad go on account of the daughter that he falls in love with. There is also a minor cast of slightly rebellious characters and then some other outside forces thrown in to complicate things.
I’m not saying it’s word for word the same, but it was a fun little thought experiment that got me through some house chores, so I thought I’d share!
I cannot imagine what Trollope would have been able to do with John Bold in the next book of the Barchester series. Is it possible this is why the author killed him off?
Pagan idolatry in Trollope’s work? I don’t recall reading these allusions in his work before. Or they did not stand out to me. Thought the contrast between pagan and Christian highlighted by the Close Reads podcast seems based in spiritual qualities. The contrast of spirit between Tom Towers of the Jupiter and the Anglican warden, Mr. Harding, makes this evident.
Just before the end of the story we find the warden rejoicing among the bedesmen after all his struggles: " ‘God bless you all! you have my heartfelt wishes for your welfare. I hope you may live contented, and die trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thankful to Almighty God for the good things he has given you. God bless you, my friends!’ and Mr Harding drank his wine.”
But it’s more than the words these two characters speak or what in the narrator tells us about them. It is the spirit in which each lives.
I’m now on Dr. Thorne (3rd the Barchester sequence) and my edition has some real interesting quotes from Trollope included in the introduction that I think bear on the questions of tone/craft that have been brought up. I found this one (forgive the length) especially interesting. It’s from Trollope’s autobiography and (according to the writer of the introduction) is a ‘slightly sarcastic’ statement: “Among English novels of the present day, and among English novelists, a great division is made. There are sensational novels and anti-sensational novels, sensational novelists and anti-sensational…the novelists who are considered to be anti-sensational are generally called realistic…the readers who prefer the one are supposed to take delight in the elucidation of character. They who hold by the other are charmed by the construction and gradual development of a plot. All this is, I think, a mistake-which mistake arises from the inability of the imperfect artist to be at the same time realistic and sensational. A good novel should be both, and both in the highest degree.” And another related quote “No novel is anything, for purposes of comedy or tragedy, unless the readers can sympathize with the characters…Truth let there be,-truth of description, truth of character, human truth as to men and women. If there be such truth, I do not know that a novel can be too sensational.” So my question (if anyone is still reading this) is does Anthony Trollope succeed, in The Warden, of meeting his own standards as a writer?
With this week's interesting discussion on Tom Towers, I wonder if each of the 4 characters driving the conflict embody the 4 great temptations:
- Archdeacon Grantly: Greed - he longs for the security and wealth provided by the social order and desires to maintain it
- Tom Towers: Fame - he states that he wants justice but is more concerned with increasing his influence by selling papers (or in today's world, increasing retweets)
- John Bold: Power - he wants to overturn the social order
- Reverend Harding: Reputation - he is inordinately interested in how others perceive his decisions
Or maybe I am stretching it too much?
For a title, building on Ethan's "Marginalia Moment" proposal, how about "Marginal Wisdom?" (with the question mark -- at least for me :-).
3 from me and one from Chat GPT but how about the following for the letters section:
"Close Replies"
"Close Reads Responses"
"Close Reads Comments"
"Marginalia Moment"
Great Convo. I think what came to light for me with the more critical discussion is that he is putting too much into one book. He is creating this duty desire conflict narrative; but then he is making a point about Dickens, he is making a point about counter culture, he is making a point about media literacy, etc. All of these other asides or points detracts from the overall plot.
So all told I think I may be moving to the David/Heidi camp.
Great episode! I loved the Letters to the Editors! I enjoyed this section of the book immensely, and the discussion was great fun, illuminating, and (dare I say) positive! The situation that John Bold finds himself in when he realizes that he can't call back all the ripples he's caused reminds me of Kristin when she realizes the same. The description of The Jupiter describes our media today to a T (there's nothing new under the sun). Thank you, Close Reads!
Hey, just wanted to drop a quick note here. 📝 I'm enjoying this discussion about Anthony Trollope's "The Warden." It's fascinating to see how different interpretations can emerge from the same text. Ethan makes a great point about the narrator's irony and the layers of meaning within the story. And Heidi, your insights about Bold's character development are spot on! Keep the great conversations coming! 😊📚
Explore captivating Contemporary, Romance, Thriller & Suspense, Science Fiction, Horror, and more stories on my Substack for FREE at https://jonahtown.substack.com
#Leditors! Or maybe ‘Close Captions’?
There was a comment made on this episode, something to the effect of the daughter needing to save the father, in this story line. Which kind of got my thinking, if one were to squint really really hard could an argument be made for the Warden and Beauty and the Beast being the same story? ... maybe? In broad strokes, with the Warden being told more from the Father’s POV instead of Belle’s? You have a father that gets in a pickle with a bad-ish guy. The bad guy lets the dad go on account of the daughter that he falls in love with. There is also a minor cast of slightly rebellious characters and then some other outside forces thrown in to complicate things.
I’m not saying it’s word for word the same, but it was a fun little thought experiment that got me through some house chores, so I thought I’d share!
I cannot imagine what Trollope would have been able to do with John Bold in the next book of the Barchester series. Is it possible this is why the author killed him off?
Pagan idolatry in Trollope’s work? I don’t recall reading these allusions in his work before. Or they did not stand out to me. Thought the contrast between pagan and Christian highlighted by the Close Reads podcast seems based in spiritual qualities. The contrast of spirit between Tom Towers of the Jupiter and the Anglican warden, Mr. Harding, makes this evident.
Just before the end of the story we find the warden rejoicing among the bedesmen after all his struggles: " ‘God bless you all! you have my heartfelt wishes for your welfare. I hope you may live contented, and die trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thankful to Almighty God for the good things he has given you. God bless you, my friends!’ and Mr Harding drank his wine.”
But it’s more than the words these two characters speak or what in the narrator tells us about them. It is the spirit in which each lives.
I’m now on Dr. Thorne (3rd the Barchester sequence) and my edition has some real interesting quotes from Trollope included in the introduction that I think bear on the questions of tone/craft that have been brought up. I found this one (forgive the length) especially interesting. It’s from Trollope’s autobiography and (according to the writer of the introduction) is a ‘slightly sarcastic’ statement: “Among English novels of the present day, and among English novelists, a great division is made. There are sensational novels and anti-sensational novels, sensational novelists and anti-sensational…the novelists who are considered to be anti-sensational are generally called realistic…the readers who prefer the one are supposed to take delight in the elucidation of character. They who hold by the other are charmed by the construction and gradual development of a plot. All this is, I think, a mistake-which mistake arises from the inability of the imperfect artist to be at the same time realistic and sensational. A good novel should be both, and both in the highest degree.” And another related quote “No novel is anything, for purposes of comedy or tragedy, unless the readers can sympathize with the characters…Truth let there be,-truth of description, truth of character, human truth as to men and women. If there be such truth, I do not know that a novel can be too sensational.” So my question (if anyone is still reading this) is does Anthony Trollope succeed, in The Warden, of meeting his own standards as a writer?
With this week's interesting discussion on Tom Towers, I wonder if each of the 4 characters driving the conflict embody the 4 great temptations:
- Archdeacon Grantly: Greed - he longs for the security and wealth provided by the social order and desires to maintain it
- Tom Towers: Fame - he states that he wants justice but is more concerned with increasing his influence by selling papers (or in today's world, increasing retweets)
- John Bold: Power - he wants to overturn the social order
- Reverend Harding: Reputation - he is inordinately interested in how others perceive his decisions
Or maybe I am stretching it too much?
For a title, building on Ethan's "Marginalia Moment" proposal, how about "Marginal Wisdom?" (with the question mark -- at least for me :-).
3 from me and one from Chat GPT but how about the following for the letters section:
"Close Replies"
"Close Reads Responses"
"Close Reads Comments"
"Marginalia Moment"
Great Convo. I think what came to light for me with the more critical discussion is that he is putting too much into one book. He is creating this duty desire conflict narrative; but then he is making a point about Dickens, he is making a point about counter culture, he is making a point about media literacy, etc. All of these other asides or points detracts from the overall plot.
So all told I think I may be moving to the David/Heidi camp.
Sean’s best summary yet. 😂
Great episode! I loved the Letters to the Editors! I enjoyed this section of the book immensely, and the discussion was great fun, illuminating, and (dare I say) positive! The situation that John Bold finds himself in when he realizes that he can't call back all the ripples he's caused reminds me of Kristin when she realizes the same. The description of The Jupiter describes our media today to a T (there's nothing new under the sun). Thank you, Close Reads!
Hey, just wanted to drop a quick note here. 📝 I'm enjoying this discussion about Anthony Trollope's "The Warden." It's fascinating to see how different interpretations can emerge from the same text. Ethan makes a great point about the narrator's irony and the layers of meaning within the story. And Heidi, your insights about Bold's character development are spot on! Keep the great conversations coming! 😊📚
Explore captivating Contemporary, Romance, Thriller & Suspense, Science Fiction, Horror, and more stories on my Substack for FREE at https://jonahtown.substack.com