The gang’s all back to discuss Cormac McCarthy’s The Road. This week we contemplate the gruesome nature of some of the scenes and images in this section, the anagogical core of the book (with a nod to McCarthy’s original working title), the arrival of the mysterious stranger, and much more. As always, happy reading!
I am a bit behind so I just listened this episode - it was great, as usual.
But.
Did I miss it, or did no one make the connection between Ely’s statement and the Shahadah? (“there is one God - Allah - and Mohammed is his prophet.”)
I don’t pretend to know what Ely means, or what McCarthy is doing here. But it seems to me that you cannot view this exchange without recognizing Ely’s parody.
It strikes me as sarcastic, jaded. It sticks out in the otherwise bleak and heavy exchange. It also strikes me as an explicit reference to The World Before - to what was, rather than what is or what might be coming.
My main experience with a grail story is Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (which I disliked and had to write a big long paper on in school). So maybe this is unrelated, but in Malory’s account I find it interesting that the grail is always elusive and missing from the text, except at times when it’s least sought for. They spend their lives searching for a sacred object they can never find, yet it will show up in castles and churches when it’s not expected. I wonder if there’s a parallel there to the idea of meaning itself in the novel; when you seek a telos to the road in front of you it is always elusive and ambiguous (what is the purpose of going on?), but when you look down at the boy sleeping in your arms, there is purpose and meaning, present with you.
Why didn’t they just stay at the bunker?! I felt such relief when he found it. What could the coast possibly provide that made it so imperative that they leave the known safety of the bunker? If the goal in this dismal world is to just stay alive, then the bunker would have accomplished that much better. So I guess the question then… is the goal really just to stay alive? (Which reminds me of The Croods, when Eep tells her father, “This isn’t living! It’s just… not dying!”) What is the man keeping them alive FOR? To ‘carry the fire’- for what purpose? Does this dark story actually keep hope at the center?
Eli's statement "There is no God and we are his prophets" reminded me of Friedrich Nietchze's (also often misquoted) "God is dead" line. Here is the full section: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?"
That is to say, once humanity has turned away from The Ideal/the Most Pure, what have we to look towards for hope and strive towards in virtue? In the case of The Road, the majority of humanity has "killed God" by resorting to cannibalism and other atrocities, but the man, the boy, and Eli are still "his prophets" because they refuse to rescind their hold on goodness. They are still "carrying the fire."
So it was less of a contradiction for me and more of a philosophical statement. Thoughts?
When I read about Ely, the old man, I immediately thought of the role of Elijah in the Passover Seder ritual (instead of Zeus as I heard in the podcast). My understanding is that at the Passover ritual an extra place is set for Elijah and a door is opened to invite Elijah to enter. The traditional meaning is that Elijah arriving will harken the arrival of the Messiah. Another meaning is that seat reminds us of the poor and the need to provide for them. I think the boy invited Elijah in and they provided what they could to him. I also think that Ely identifies this story as a journey to a promised land. In the next scene, the find the train, which I take as supporting this concept because of the song "People Get Ready."
I was a little disappointed that you ended the discussion between the man and Ely a little early. I think one of the most profound statements is the counterpoint on the next page:
Thank you for the discussion about how McCarthy creates a story that is very specific and yet transcendent. I have struggled to find a way to articulate that notion.
I also appreciate the discussion that the working title was "The Grail." It leads me to ask "Is the boy the grail? Or are they searching for the grail?" I think you danced around that question but I would love each of your opinions. When the boy talks about carrying the fire, I think he must be the grail. However, the journey and the desire to find salvation (or at least a place to live) makes me think they are searching. What do you think?
Agree with Heidi about the title. The Road is a better title. But I do love knowing the original title... I've definitely been seeing the spiritual overtones as I've read all along.
I really appreciated the bit about Vincent Van Gogh that David brought up at the end.
I am a bit behind so I just listened this episode - it was great, as usual.
But.
Did I miss it, or did no one make the connection between Ely’s statement and the Shahadah? (“there is one God - Allah - and Mohammed is his prophet.”)
I don’t pretend to know what Ely means, or what McCarthy is doing here. But it seems to me that you cannot view this exchange without recognizing Ely’s parody.
It strikes me as sarcastic, jaded. It sticks out in the otherwise bleak and heavy exchange. It also strikes me as an explicit reference to The World Before - to what was, rather than what is or what might be coming.
Did anyone else catch this?
My main experience with a grail story is Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (which I disliked and had to write a big long paper on in school). So maybe this is unrelated, but in Malory’s account I find it interesting that the grail is always elusive and missing from the text, except at times when it’s least sought for. They spend their lives searching for a sacred object they can never find, yet it will show up in castles and churches when it’s not expected. I wonder if there’s a parallel there to the idea of meaning itself in the novel; when you seek a telos to the road in front of you it is always elusive and ambiguous (what is the purpose of going on?), but when you look down at the boy sleeping in your arms, there is purpose and meaning, present with you.
Why didn’t they just stay at the bunker?! I felt such relief when he found it. What could the coast possibly provide that made it so imperative that they leave the known safety of the bunker? If the goal in this dismal world is to just stay alive, then the bunker would have accomplished that much better. So I guess the question then… is the goal really just to stay alive? (Which reminds me of The Croods, when Eep tells her father, “This isn’t living! It’s just… not dying!”) What is the man keeping them alive FOR? To ‘carry the fire’- for what purpose? Does this dark story actually keep hope at the center?
Eli's statement "There is no God and we are his prophets" reminded me of Friedrich Nietchze's (also often misquoted) "God is dead" line. Here is the full section: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?"
That is to say, once humanity has turned away from The Ideal/the Most Pure, what have we to look towards for hope and strive towards in virtue? In the case of The Road, the majority of humanity has "killed God" by resorting to cannibalism and other atrocities, but the man, the boy, and Eli are still "his prophets" because they refuse to rescind their hold on goodness. They are still "carrying the fire."
So it was less of a contradiction for me and more of a philosophical statement. Thoughts?
“Are we going to live our everyday lives in such a fashion as to give voice to hope?” Love this! Thank you Tim.
When I read about Ely, the old man, I immediately thought of the role of Elijah in the Passover Seder ritual (instead of Zeus as I heard in the podcast). My understanding is that at the Passover ritual an extra place is set for Elijah and a door is opened to invite Elijah to enter. The traditional meaning is that Elijah arriving will harken the arrival of the Messiah. Another meaning is that seat reminds us of the poor and the need to provide for them. I think the boy invited Elijah in and they provided what they could to him. I also think that Ely identifies this story as a journey to a promised land. In the next scene, the find the train, which I take as supporting this concept because of the song "People Get Ready."
I was a little disappointed that you ended the discussion between the man and Ely a little early. I think one of the most profound statements is the counterpoint on the next page:
Maybe he believes in God.
I don't konw waht he believes in.
He'll get over it.
No he won't.
Thank you for the discussion about how McCarthy creates a story that is very specific and yet transcendent. I have struggled to find a way to articulate that notion.
I also appreciate the discussion that the working title was "The Grail." It leads me to ask "Is the boy the grail? Or are they searching for the grail?" I think you danced around that question but I would love each of your opinions. When the boy talks about carrying the fire, I think he must be the grail. However, the journey and the desire to find salvation (or at least a place to live) makes me think they are searching. What do you think?
Please write the title of the Van Gogh book here. Thanks.
Agree with Heidi about the title. The Road is a better title. But I do love knowing the original title... I've definitely been seeing the spiritual overtones as I've read all along.
I really appreciated the bit about Vincent Van Gogh that David brought up at the end.
How are letters to the editor different than questions for the Q&A? 🤔