This week we’re discussing whether Joshua Cohen’s approach to exploring Jewish culture works in the ways that he seems to hope it will, whether the book is too sad to be truly funny, whether the story has finally revealed what it is, and much more. Don’t forget to weigh in on this episode’s question. Let us know what you think in the comments!
I'm getting caught up...just finished the book this morning and I still need to listen to the "Finis" episode, but on the question of whether the nose scene (or the whole book in general) is funny, initially I think I would have said no. The issues felt too serious to take lightly. Then I got to thinking about why you (David) like it so much, and that you also love the film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which Dan and I watched a while back after hearing you talk about it so much. And I really liked it, even though normally I would not enjoy a movie with that level of rated-R-ness ;) And it's FUNNY. When I reimagined the Judy's nose scene, and the final scene, as a Tarantino film, it all made sense. If Quentin Tarantino were to make a film of this book, it would be HILARIOUS. And a lot of people would hate it, lol.
I have to say I know macabre humor is not my forte for sure. I have really appreciated Tim’s thoughtful pushing back and despite his not getting my beloved “Book of the Dun Cow” I can appreciate his “I just don’t get it.” I was there with Heidi with “A Confederacy of Dunces and this book feels the same way for me but just slightly different.
That said - I do care about the book 😂 Even if I don’t like it!
I just finished chapter 8. I didn’t find the nose scene as funny as other parts of the book (most notably the scene with the in-laws in the bedroom), but I’m not sure if that is due to the nature of the scene itself or the fact that I had listened to the podcast episode before I came to that scene and lost the shock value of it. Also, the audiobook soundtrack is more subdued during that scene, which seemed designed to highlight its poignancy over its absurdity. I thought Judy’s smugness after her recovery helped to balance the incident and keep it from being purely tragic. By the end of chapter 7 she has the disturbing confidence of a super-villain, and I found it difficult to feel sorry for her!
I think Judy’s reaction was really key for me as well. If she hadn’t seemed so self-satisfied with the results of Nosegate, I honestly don’t know if I would have found it nearly as funny.
Wasn’t looking forward to reading this book, but was delightfully surprised at how much I love it. It’s hilarious and also brings to light the Jewish struggle in a “Christian” society. Great choice!
The book is funny because Reuben interprets his world humorously. Another narrator could take the same material and make it boring. But I can't help but wonder - is Reuben's tendency to humorize everything just a coping mechanism to help him deal with the fact that he doesn't really believe in anything? Could the book be funny if Reuben were a practicing Jew of some kind or even had any faith of any kind?
On another note, I think this book, and the character of Rueben, is exploring the idea of the diaspora. He is even more far-flung than the diaspora in New York City. Alienation and the clash of cultures within a subculture seems to be the contemplation of this novel. I think that both BenZion and his new community find Rueben foreign and other.
I’m not finding this book funny at all. I’d be interested in hearing more about your understanding of humor in literature. Early in the podcast their were many terms tossed out that I simply don’t know what they really are about so maybe I lack the exposure to see the humor? I find so much dysfunction in this book. I think about the generational trauma that is suffered by the families of Holocaust survivors and think that perhaps that is in play here. I can’t imagine where this book is headed, but I’m along for the ride.
I think I found the part about them bringing Judy “into the hospital wailing and giddy” faintly funny. My overall impression of the nose-capade chapter was what a sad situation this was.
I think this book is hilarious, but the Judy nose scene was really unsettling to me. Phrases like “final shrieking” and “spike to be driven through her face” make it more horrific and violent than funny. The way Rube dreams about it “incessantly” and imagines the scene makes it seem less darkly amusing and more traumatic for him as a father. The way he describes her sweating as she waited and her “perverse discipline” and especially- “to let my father damage her in the way she’d so desired.” That’s a heavy statement, and in this section, I think we see him as a father who feels like he has failed his daughter. That is just sad to me.
I did not find the nosescapade funny. I didn’t enjoy the book and I read it as quickly as possible knowing that if I set it down I would not bother to pick it back up again. Maybe the biggest sticking point for me is that Cohen is writing about a real family. I wonder if he’d written about a fictional family if it would have been different. I started reading it on edge waiting to see how he would treat them. Then again from the beginning of the book I struggled. It seemed like the book just couldn’t take off. So when there began to be interesting scenes and character introductions I already had a bad taste in my mouth. But it’s nice to see David really enjoying a book! With how much I loved Asher Lev (I immediately read the second one and “the Chosen”), I was looking forward to another book that would introduce Jewish culture to my life. So I AM enjoying the discussion (as per usual) especially since it is an entirely different perspective on Judaism, even if the book wasn’t for me.
I think reading the aftermath (parents’ fear of her) and afterword (revealing the real “Judy” as socially unhinged) take some of the dark humor out of it. Still funny, but in a Scott’s Tots way. On rereading I’d be making a 😬 face.
Would LOVE a Cohen brothers film adaptation. Can’t stop thinking about it since it was first mentioned.
I found the nose scene very funny (I have found most of the book very witty), but I think it would not have been as funny if we were "watching" it happen as it is knowing it's how Rube imagined it happening and such dramatic flair.
First I totally agree with Heidi: I love to see David enjoying a book. It’s simply delightful, even if it’s not my kind of book. I didn’t even realize this was supposed to be funny. The scene with Judy breaking her own nose scared me. All I could think of was ‘She could have died”. And I totally disapprove of doing her homework for her. So no, I didn’t laugh, but I can see where some might find it funny. I’m listening to it so I might get a different perspective from reading the book in print. I’m so glad I have the podcast hosts to help me through this and all the different comments from listeners. Being exposed to different books and ideas is why I love this podcast.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this book so far. As for the nose scene, it brought back memories of my own wish for a nose job as a teenager, which my own teenage daughter is going through now. Not quite as extreme and we are not Jewish. Teenage angst over appearance is a truth universally acknowledged. haha. The funniest scene for me is still the one with Edith's parents in the bedroom. The one with the Yahu's kids had me on edge at the mess they were making. This is my reaction as an OCD female thinking about cleaning it up. I also love, as David and Heidi pointed out, a book that makes me think and learn something new. I chased a rabbit after the comment in the book about Ford being a Nazi. That was super enlightening. David, your personal picks are always a hit here.
I'm getting caught up...just finished the book this morning and I still need to listen to the "Finis" episode, but on the question of whether the nose scene (or the whole book in general) is funny, initially I think I would have said no. The issues felt too serious to take lightly. Then I got to thinking about why you (David) like it so much, and that you also love the film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which Dan and I watched a while back after hearing you talk about it so much. And I really liked it, even though normally I would not enjoy a movie with that level of rated-R-ness ;) And it's FUNNY. When I reimagined the Judy's nose scene, and the final scene, as a Tarantino film, it all made sense. If Quentin Tarantino were to make a film of this book, it would be HILARIOUS. And a lot of people would hate it, lol.
I have to say I know macabre humor is not my forte for sure. I have really appreciated Tim’s thoughtful pushing back and despite his not getting my beloved “Book of the Dun Cow” I can appreciate his “I just don’t get it.” I was there with Heidi with “A Confederacy of Dunces and this book feels the same way for me but just slightly different.
That said - I do care about the book 😂 Even if I don’t like it!
I just finished chapter 8. I didn’t find the nose scene as funny as other parts of the book (most notably the scene with the in-laws in the bedroom), but I’m not sure if that is due to the nature of the scene itself or the fact that I had listened to the podcast episode before I came to that scene and lost the shock value of it. Also, the audiobook soundtrack is more subdued during that scene, which seemed designed to highlight its poignancy over its absurdity. I thought Judy’s smugness after her recovery helped to balance the incident and keep it from being purely tragic. By the end of chapter 7 she has the disturbing confidence of a super-villain, and I found it difficult to feel sorry for her!
I think Judy’s reaction was really key for me as well. If she hadn’t seemed so self-satisfied with the results of Nosegate, I honestly don’t know if I would have found it nearly as funny.
"Nosegate 2017" LOL
Wasn’t looking forward to reading this book, but was delightfully surprised at how much I love it. It’s hilarious and also brings to light the Jewish struggle in a “Christian” society. Great choice!
I didn't think the scene itself was funny, but I do find Rube Blum's description of it funny. I like his droll humor.
This is how I feel too.
The book is funny because Reuben interprets his world humorously. Another narrator could take the same material and make it boring. But I can't help but wonder - is Reuben's tendency to humorize everything just a coping mechanism to help him deal with the fact that he doesn't really believe in anything? Could the book be funny if Reuben were a practicing Jew of some kind or even had any faith of any kind?
Equal parts funny, heart-breaking, and gross.
On another note, I think this book, and the character of Rueben, is exploring the idea of the diaspora. He is even more far-flung than the diaspora in New York City. Alienation and the clash of cultures within a subculture seems to be the contemplation of this novel. I think that both BenZion and his new community find Rueben foreign and other.
I wonder if how we see this book depends to some extent on how we feel about the actual Netanyahus, Benjamin in particular.
I’m not finding this book funny at all. I’d be interested in hearing more about your understanding of humor in literature. Early in the podcast their were many terms tossed out that I simply don’t know what they really are about so maybe I lack the exposure to see the humor? I find so much dysfunction in this book. I think about the generational trauma that is suffered by the families of Holocaust survivors and think that perhaps that is in play here. I can’t imagine where this book is headed, but I’m along for the ride.
I think I found the part about them bringing Judy “into the hospital wailing and giddy” faintly funny. My overall impression of the nose-capade chapter was what a sad situation this was.
I think this book is hilarious, but the Judy nose scene was really unsettling to me. Phrases like “final shrieking” and “spike to be driven through her face” make it more horrific and violent than funny. The way Rube dreams about it “incessantly” and imagines the scene makes it seem less darkly amusing and more traumatic for him as a father. The way he describes her sweating as she waited and her “perverse discipline” and especially- “to let my father damage her in the way she’d so desired.” That’s a heavy statement, and in this section, I think we see him as a father who feels like he has failed his daughter. That is just sad to me.
I did not find the nosescapade funny. I didn’t enjoy the book and I read it as quickly as possible knowing that if I set it down I would not bother to pick it back up again. Maybe the biggest sticking point for me is that Cohen is writing about a real family. I wonder if he’d written about a fictional family if it would have been different. I started reading it on edge waiting to see how he would treat them. Then again from the beginning of the book I struggled. It seemed like the book just couldn’t take off. So when there began to be interesting scenes and character introductions I already had a bad taste in my mouth. But it’s nice to see David really enjoying a book! With how much I loved Asher Lev (I immediately read the second one and “the Chosen”), I was looking forward to another book that would introduce Jewish culture to my life. So I AM enjoying the discussion (as per usual) especially since it is an entirely different perspective on Judaism, even if the book wasn’t for me.
I think reading the aftermath (parents’ fear of her) and afterword (revealing the real “Judy” as socially unhinged) take some of the dark humor out of it. Still funny, but in a Scott’s Tots way. On rereading I’d be making a 😬 face.
Would LOVE a Cohen brothers film adaptation. Can’t stop thinking about it since it was first mentioned.
I found the nose scene very funny (I have found most of the book very witty), but I think it would not have been as funny if we were "watching" it happen as it is knowing it's how Rube imagined it happening and such dramatic flair.
First I totally agree with Heidi: I love to see David enjoying a book. It’s simply delightful, even if it’s not my kind of book. I didn’t even realize this was supposed to be funny. The scene with Judy breaking her own nose scared me. All I could think of was ‘She could have died”. And I totally disapprove of doing her homework for her. So no, I didn’t laugh, but I can see where some might find it funny. I’m listening to it so I might get a different perspective from reading the book in print. I’m so glad I have the podcast hosts to help me through this and all the different comments from listeners. Being exposed to different books and ideas is why I love this podcast.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this book so far. As for the nose scene, it brought back memories of my own wish for a nose job as a teenager, which my own teenage daughter is going through now. Not quite as extreme and we are not Jewish. Teenage angst over appearance is a truth universally acknowledged. haha. The funniest scene for me is still the one with Edith's parents in the bedroom. The one with the Yahu's kids had me on edge at the mess they were making. This is my reaction as an OCD female thinking about cleaning it up. I also love, as David and Heidi pointed out, a book that makes me think and learn something new. I chased a rabbit after the comment in the book about Ford being a Nazi. That was super enlightening. David, your personal picks are always a hit here.