(I'm hoping this is where the Q&A episode questions should be posted) My question is about the printed music in the middle of the book (p. 144-145) in Chapter 14 that ONLY occurs when they search for Bernard in the woods after hunting for mushrooms. I was delighted with this addition to the text, and I went directly to my piano to play it and hear the call. Thankfully, it was easy to plunk out because I am no musician. I was hoping for more moments like this in the book, so why do you suppose he adds this where he does and why not in other places?
The more enthusiastic the hosts got about this book the more I felt like I was missing something. To be clear it's NOT that I didn't like it. But maybe I read it too slowly-- I tried to pace myself to keep up with the podcast, but maybe I should have read it all in one gulp instead to really lose myself in the story? Maybe I was too distracted by the other books I was reading in between? Maybe I'm just not a careful enough reader? Maybe it's a book I need to read more than once in order to fall in love with it? There were passages I loved, but the overall effect of the Passion performance being the denouement just didn't quite land for me and the fact that it did for David and Heidi and Sean left me feeling kind of left out of the conversation. Maybe it's that I'm not a musical person and therefore had a harder time entering into the description of the performance?
The parts of the show that worked best for me were when y'all were reading from the book itself. The passages you chose to highlight did help. But when you were just raving about how much you loved the book and especially Heide talking about how much better she liked it than other contemporary novels we'd read that I liked (cough, cough, Station Eleven) that kind of made me feel a bit defensive-- almost like because I loved Station Eleven I wanted to pull away from The Great Passion a bit. What I want to do is to love them both: Station Eleven because it holds up a mirror to the world I walk through every day where people don't know how to make meaning and are suffering all the more terribly because of that and The Great Passion because it reminds me of a world that they cannot access because they don't have the key to unlock the door. I guess Station Eleven makes me feel so much compassion for people who walk in darkness and haven't seen the light. These are the people that Bach is writing for perhaps even more so than the people who are comfortably in the Church and taking that for granted. For me that's the hope the Orchestra holds out-- that somehow the spirit of a Bach could communicate meaning through the music itself into a confused and hopeless world. Maybe that's what Runcie is trying to say too: look at how hopeful this music is! Look at how beautiful a meaningful world can be. But I guess I see Mandel as the opposite of the same coin. She also points me to the gaping wound of suffering in the world and rouses my great compassion.
Anyway, I guess I'm kind of a resistant reader and do better when I'm reading against the grain? The more someone raves about a book the more I want them to defend their enthusiasm and prove it with close readings. Whereas when someone is more critical it make me dig deeper and do more of my own close reading so that I can go to bat for the book. Maybe I'd have fallen a bit more in love with The Great Passion if I had to defend it against a skeptical reader? Maybe I'd have liked it better if this was the hosts' first reading as well and they were discovering it for the first time instead of seeing more and more details on a re-read? I think that also made their experience feel a bit more distant from mine and harder to connect with.
I will probably reread it in a couple of years and wonder why I didn't love it as much the first time. But for now I'm feeling a bit more at arm's length, a bit alienated and out in the cold. Maybe I'll try to listen to the audiobook during Lent and see if having it mesh more closely with the liturgical season works better for me.
Also I definitely got the impression that Stefan does NOT end up with Catarina and maybe that also made me a bit sad. I like ambiguous endings in general, but here I felt there were more signposts pointing to him going home and not seeing her again than there were signs of hope.
I realize my passion for this story stems from my connection to the music of Bach, particularly his vocal works. Sean spoke in the first episode of the text painting that he is known for, and I think that delving into his texts, i.e. close reading Bach's texts (not only this book) is a key to the enthusiasm for the story Runcie gives us. It is clear to me he (Runcie) loves Bach. I see that in the way he describes Anna Magdalena's coaching of Stephan and his receiving and giving himself to it. This is still how it's done! And there are many other small details in the various relationships that resonate with me because of my experience with the music and the texts (for which German is perfectly suited) which are not merely acknowledgements of suffering but a "death swallowed up in victory" worldview which Bach gives us and which I think Runcie wants to subtly give us as well.
Thank you, Melanie for articulating my thoughts as well. I also finished the book thinking I might have liked it more if I read it faster / was not so distracted by everything else in life.
I would add that the number of aphorisms (especially early in the book) really turned me off. It seemed that most of the characters were so busy giving pithy advice that I could not really get to know or appreciate them.
I will also add (and maybe not too late to get it into a question) that I am surprised that the last chapter (at and after Bach's funeral) did not have more discussion of spiritual things. I am wondering how much faith Stefan, Catarina, and the other characters have 22 years later
Melanie, you're not alone! I read this a few weeks in advance of the podcast and felt pretty underwhelmed by it. I have a musical background and I was expecting to love it, but it just didn't seem well-written to me. So I was so surprised when I started seeing all the rave reviews in this group! All I can think is maybe the audiobook is just a much better reading experience. I know I tend not to notice poor writing as much in that format. I found the dialogue clunky and sententious, and something about the narrator/POV kept me at arm's length and uninvested to the point that the characters' various griefs felt unearned by the story and . . . Trite? That's not exactly the right word. Anyway! Didn't live up to the hype for me :)
I didn't see a Q&A thread but my question would be if you all felt that the novel was building towards something. I enjoyed it, but found it repetitive.
Four or five times in the book: something tragic happens, Bach gives the protagonist a challenging piece, the protagonist thinks it's too hard, he has to stretch himself and give himself over to the music, (sometimes he gets sick), the performance happens, and it seems to be cathartic. The performance at the end is the longest with the biggest run up, but it doesn't feel climatic to me.
The book is kind of structured like a song. There are many verses, and every verse is different, but they follow the same melody. The performances themselves are a kind of chorus.
Am I off base here? Does the book have a progression towards something or is it intentionally repeating the same beats until the end of the flashback?
As a college-trained pianist who has done many performances (in mostly small settings) it makes me guess that Runcie has some kind of musical background. This is what it is like to prepare for a performance. It is a decent into madness and humility. Your mind plays so many tricks on you up to the performance. But if you have practiced well, most often you are ready in that moment. And, I think that is part of the anxiety. Music is painting on time that only moves forward. And then the euphoria that follows... Runcie got it right.
This book has been so interesting. It's left me with much to think about.
One thing I have been pondering is the theology of music that is hinted at through The Cantor's sermons. I wonder if there are any other books anyone could recommend on this topic?
The most surprising element was the idea that the performance is actually part of drawing the congregation into worship and understanding. I have always thought of performance being separate from congregational worship. This is certainly part of the thinking in my own church.
Bach seemed to see no real difference. I wonder if it's the attitude or expectation of the congregation that enables even performance into worship,coupled with the intention of the performers/creators.
I loved this conversation and especially its closing discussion imagining what heaven will be like because I feel that's what Bach's music does and what Runcie has accomplished as well. Thank you!
Listening in Christmas Eve morning…doing the half-finished laundry from my child’s midnight puke…haha happy Christmas! The good news is she just ate too many cookies and it’s not a stomach bug.
I love how unapologetically himself Sean is. Not that there’s a need to apologize :)
Great pick! Thank you for a great year of books. (And thanks for the laughs along the way.)
(I'm hoping this is where the Q&A episode questions should be posted) My question is about the printed music in the middle of the book (p. 144-145) in Chapter 14 that ONLY occurs when they search for Bernard in the woods after hunting for mushrooms. I was delighted with this addition to the text, and I went directly to my piano to play it and hear the call. Thankfully, it was easy to plunk out because I am no musician. I was hoping for more moments like this in the book, so why do you suppose he adds this where he does and why not in other places?
The more enthusiastic the hosts got about this book the more I felt like I was missing something. To be clear it's NOT that I didn't like it. But maybe I read it too slowly-- I tried to pace myself to keep up with the podcast, but maybe I should have read it all in one gulp instead to really lose myself in the story? Maybe I was too distracted by the other books I was reading in between? Maybe I'm just not a careful enough reader? Maybe it's a book I need to read more than once in order to fall in love with it? There were passages I loved, but the overall effect of the Passion performance being the denouement just didn't quite land for me and the fact that it did for David and Heidi and Sean left me feeling kind of left out of the conversation. Maybe it's that I'm not a musical person and therefore had a harder time entering into the description of the performance?
The parts of the show that worked best for me were when y'all were reading from the book itself. The passages you chose to highlight did help. But when you were just raving about how much you loved the book and especially Heide talking about how much better she liked it than other contemporary novels we'd read that I liked (cough, cough, Station Eleven) that kind of made me feel a bit defensive-- almost like because I loved Station Eleven I wanted to pull away from The Great Passion a bit. What I want to do is to love them both: Station Eleven because it holds up a mirror to the world I walk through every day where people don't know how to make meaning and are suffering all the more terribly because of that and The Great Passion because it reminds me of a world that they cannot access because they don't have the key to unlock the door. I guess Station Eleven makes me feel so much compassion for people who walk in darkness and haven't seen the light. These are the people that Bach is writing for perhaps even more so than the people who are comfortably in the Church and taking that for granted. For me that's the hope the Orchestra holds out-- that somehow the spirit of a Bach could communicate meaning through the music itself into a confused and hopeless world. Maybe that's what Runcie is trying to say too: look at how hopeful this music is! Look at how beautiful a meaningful world can be. But I guess I see Mandel as the opposite of the same coin. She also points me to the gaping wound of suffering in the world and rouses my great compassion.
Anyway, I guess I'm kind of a resistant reader and do better when I'm reading against the grain? The more someone raves about a book the more I want them to defend their enthusiasm and prove it with close readings. Whereas when someone is more critical it make me dig deeper and do more of my own close reading so that I can go to bat for the book. Maybe I'd have fallen a bit more in love with The Great Passion if I had to defend it against a skeptical reader? Maybe I'd have liked it better if this was the hosts' first reading as well and they were discovering it for the first time instead of seeing more and more details on a re-read? I think that also made their experience feel a bit more distant from mine and harder to connect with.
I will probably reread it in a couple of years and wonder why I didn't love it as much the first time. But for now I'm feeling a bit more at arm's length, a bit alienated and out in the cold. Maybe I'll try to listen to the audiobook during Lent and see if having it mesh more closely with the liturgical season works better for me.
Also I definitely got the impression that Stefan does NOT end up with Catarina and maybe that also made me a bit sad. I like ambiguous endings in general, but here I felt there were more signposts pointing to him going home and not seeing her again than there were signs of hope.
I realize my passion for this story stems from my connection to the music of Bach, particularly his vocal works. Sean spoke in the first episode of the text painting that he is known for, and I think that delving into his texts, i.e. close reading Bach's texts (not only this book) is a key to the enthusiasm for the story Runcie gives us. It is clear to me he (Runcie) loves Bach. I see that in the way he describes Anna Magdalena's coaching of Stephan and his receiving and giving himself to it. This is still how it's done! And there are many other small details in the various relationships that resonate with me because of my experience with the music and the texts (for which German is perfectly suited) which are not merely acknowledgements of suffering but a "death swallowed up in victory" worldview which Bach gives us and which I think Runcie wants to subtly give us as well.
Thank you, Melanie for articulating my thoughts as well. I also finished the book thinking I might have liked it more if I read it faster / was not so distracted by everything else in life.
I would add that the number of aphorisms (especially early in the book) really turned me off. It seemed that most of the characters were so busy giving pithy advice that I could not really get to know or appreciate them.
I will also add (and maybe not too late to get it into a question) that I am surprised that the last chapter (at and after Bach's funeral) did not have more discussion of spiritual things. I am wondering how much faith Stefan, Catarina, and the other characters have 22 years later
Melanie, you're not alone! I read this a few weeks in advance of the podcast and felt pretty underwhelmed by it. I have a musical background and I was expecting to love it, but it just didn't seem well-written to me. So I was so surprised when I started seeing all the rave reviews in this group! All I can think is maybe the audiobook is just a much better reading experience. I know I tend not to notice poor writing as much in that format. I found the dialogue clunky and sententious, and something about the narrator/POV kept me at arm's length and uninvested to the point that the characters' various griefs felt unearned by the story and . . . Trite? That's not exactly the right word. Anyway! Didn't live up to the hype for me :)
I didn't see a Q&A thread but my question would be if you all felt that the novel was building towards something. I enjoyed it, but found it repetitive.
Four or five times in the book: something tragic happens, Bach gives the protagonist a challenging piece, the protagonist thinks it's too hard, he has to stretch himself and give himself over to the music, (sometimes he gets sick), the performance happens, and it seems to be cathartic. The performance at the end is the longest with the biggest run up, but it doesn't feel climatic to me.
The book is kind of structured like a song. There are many verses, and every verse is different, but they follow the same melody. The performances themselves are a kind of chorus.
Am I off base here? Does the book have a progression towards something or is it intentionally repeating the same beats until the end of the flashback?
As a college-trained pianist who has done many performances (in mostly small settings) it makes me guess that Runcie has some kind of musical background. This is what it is like to prepare for a performance. It is a decent into madness and humility. Your mind plays so many tricks on you up to the performance. But if you have practiced well, most often you are ready in that moment. And, I think that is part of the anxiety. Music is painting on time that only moves forward. And then the euphoria that follows... Runcie got it right.
"It is a decent into madness and humility." --Amen to that, sir!
This book has been so interesting. It's left me with much to think about.
One thing I have been pondering is the theology of music that is hinted at through The Cantor's sermons. I wonder if there are any other books anyone could recommend on this topic?
The most surprising element was the idea that the performance is actually part of drawing the congregation into worship and understanding. I have always thought of performance being separate from congregational worship. This is certainly part of the thinking in my own church.
Bach seemed to see no real difference. I wonder if it's the attitude or expectation of the congregation that enables even performance into worship,coupled with the intention of the performers/creators.
I loved this conversation and especially its closing discussion imagining what heaven will be like because I feel that's what Bach's music does and what Runcie has accomplished as well. Thank you!
Listening in Christmas Eve morning…doing the half-finished laundry from my child’s midnight puke…haha happy Christmas! The good news is she just ate too many cookies and it’s not a stomach bug.
I love how unapologetically himself Sean is. Not that there’s a need to apologize :)
What could be better than Harry Potter? Narnia?