As is our custom here at Close Reads, we’re here to answer your questions. So in this episode, David, Heidi, and Tim discuss questions about hope in Ivan Denisovich; the value of work in the story; the book’s structure; and much, much more. Happy listening!
I have fallen into a DEEP depression and will NEVER listen to your podcast again!!! ;) ;) ;) JK of course. I was crying laughing listening to you riff on my question. My kids were concerned about me. It was great.
“I wish I could tell you how lonely I am. How cold and harsh it is here. Everywhere there is conflict and unkindness. I think God has forsaken this place. I believe I have seen hell and it's white, it's snow-white.” ~North and South BBC mini series screenplay (I think)
☝🏻I thought of that quote as I heard the Gulag so often described as hell during the podcasts.
I am surprised by how much I loved this book. I actually didn't like it at first and almost gave up, but I got hooked at the scene in the power station as they all pulled together. It was electrifying.
And I think Ivan D. is a hero, even if in a small way. He survived the day; he helped others survive the day. His humanity was still intact at the end when he took pity on and selflessly helped Cezar (sp? I did the audiobook 🤷🏻♀️), who looked down on Ivan because of his lower class and lack of culture. He is completely committed to the success and survival of Gang 104, despite being forced to constantly calculate how he will take care of himself. He sees his fellow prisoners through a lens of a kind of "tough love" even if he doesn't have the emotional capacity to delve fully into their suffering, due to his own.
In short, I was captured by the story and the characters. Thank you, Tim!
I can help a bit with Russian names. Ivan is considered the Russian equivalent of John. Жук means bug in Russian, so perhaps Shukhov is a derivative of that--it makes sense to me, given that Ivan is potentially a bug being crushed under the heel of Russian tyranny, but that might be reading into it too deeply.
Patronymic names are formed, as you stated, using the father’s first name. The suffix -ovich is added for a male, and -ovna for a female. (There are some minor adjustments that are made if the father’s first name ends in certain letters, but I don’t want to get into the weeds, just know that is why you see a slight difference once in a while.)
Nicknames abound in Russian and can come from first names, patronymics, or something else entirely. If you find that frustrating, keep in mind that English does the same thing. Why is Margaret often Peggy? Or Edward, Ned? Or anyone at all, Baby, Bubba, Lou, or Tex?
Thanks for that - makes sense! Are we to make anything of Alyoshka calling him "Denisych" at the end? Is this possibly indicative of a deeper history between the two? Is Alyoshka simply being pastoral or fatherlike in his response? Does it give additional significance or depth to this part of this particular discussion? Or am I making too much of and it's just shorthand? It just seems all too intentional on the author's part. I can't seem to let it go 😂
Found a little bit about this reading the Translator's Note in the Everyman's Library version of Crime and Punishment. It says that the "Denisych" instead of "Denisovich" usage would have been "only used in speech, [and] suggests a certain familiarity."
Thanks for the responses! Y’all were able to get to the heart of my poorly phrased questions.
Gotta say though I was surprised by y’all’s choice of actors. Bogart? I guess I don’t see Ivan Denisovich as “cunning” like y’all do. Yes, he’s smart in a survival kind of way and he does show courage, but maybe because of his Everyman/non-hero quality (I keep picturing the soldier/holy fool character in the island), I just can’t see him as any star actor. I’d have to go with a no-name, new actor. I came across a movie on YouTube that has some good things about it including the look of the actor playing Ivan.
One more thought, I wish I’d asked about the old veteran inmate Ivan sees at dinner time - the one who doesn’t stoop his head to eat - but I couldn’t come up with anything specific to ask. He just really stood out to me.
I have fallen into a DEEP depression and will NEVER listen to your podcast again!!! ;) ;) ;) JK of course. I was crying laughing listening to you riff on my question. My kids were concerned about me. It was great.
“I wish I could tell you how lonely I am. How cold and harsh it is here. Everywhere there is conflict and unkindness. I think God has forsaken this place. I believe I have seen hell and it's white, it's snow-white.” ~North and South BBC mini series screenplay (I think)
☝🏻I thought of that quote as I heard the Gulag so often described as hell during the podcasts.
I am surprised by how much I loved this book. I actually didn't like it at first and almost gave up, but I got hooked at the scene in the power station as they all pulled together. It was electrifying.
And I think Ivan D. is a hero, even if in a small way. He survived the day; he helped others survive the day. His humanity was still intact at the end when he took pity on and selflessly helped Cezar (sp? I did the audiobook 🤷🏻♀️), who looked down on Ivan because of his lower class and lack of culture. He is completely committed to the success and survival of Gang 104, despite being forced to constantly calculate how he will take care of himself. He sees his fellow prisoners through a lens of a kind of "tough love" even if he doesn't have the emotional capacity to delve fully into their suffering, due to his own.
In short, I was captured by the story and the characters. Thank you, Tim!
I can help a bit with Russian names. Ivan is considered the Russian equivalent of John. Жук means bug in Russian, so perhaps Shukhov is a derivative of that--it makes sense to me, given that Ivan is potentially a bug being crushed under the heel of Russian tyranny, but that might be reading into it too deeply.
Patronymic names are formed, as you stated, using the father’s first name. The suffix -ovich is added for a male, and -ovna for a female. (There are some minor adjustments that are made if the father’s first name ends in certain letters, but I don’t want to get into the weeds, just know that is why you see a slight difference once in a while.)
Nicknames abound in Russian and can come from first names, patronymics, or something else entirely. If you find that frustrating, keep in mind that English does the same thing. Why is Margaret often Peggy? Or Edward, Ned? Or anyone at all, Baby, Bubba, Lou, or Tex?
Thanks for that - makes sense! Are we to make anything of Alyoshka calling him "Denisych" at the end? Is this possibly indicative of a deeper history between the two? Is Alyoshka simply being pastoral or fatherlike in his response? Does it give additional significance or depth to this part of this particular discussion? Or am I making too much of and it's just shorthand? It just seems all too intentional on the author's part. I can't seem to let it go 😂
I took it as an endearment - a loving, coaxing address.
Found a little bit about this reading the Translator's Note in the Everyman's Library version of Crime and Punishment. It says that the "Denisych" instead of "Denisovich" usage would have been "only used in speech, [and] suggests a certain familiarity."
I was looking in my copy of The Brothers Karamazov for their name pronunciation guide, but it didn’t have that specific ending 😄
I took it as an endearment of sorts as well.
Thanks for the responses! Y’all were able to get to the heart of my poorly phrased questions.
Gotta say though I was surprised by y’all’s choice of actors. Bogart? I guess I don’t see Ivan Denisovich as “cunning” like y’all do. Yes, he’s smart in a survival kind of way and he does show courage, but maybe because of his Everyman/non-hero quality (I keep picturing the soldier/holy fool character in the island), I just can’t see him as any star actor. I’d have to go with a no-name, new actor. I came across a movie on YouTube that has some good things about it including the look of the actor playing Ivan.
One more thought, I wish I’d asked about the old veteran inmate Ivan sees at dinner time - the one who doesn’t stoop his head to eat - but I couldn’t come up with anything specific to ask. He just really stood out to me.