Sean calls this the happy section of the book, so in this episode we discuss the book’s conception of happiness, engage in a close reading of the scene between Frederic and an old billiards player, and contemplate the question of cynicism in this book.
When you’re reading, do you every “recycle” settings in your head? For me, the setting for the hotel interior in part 4 is the same hotel interior my brain created for A Gentleman in Moscow, and I enjoyed the revisit even though the stories are quite different.
I didn't find this to be the happy section of the book, I have to admit, although there is a release from tension and it's not sad. But rather, I thought that the one of the key points in Book 4 was the part that was read in the podcast, the conversation and billiards game between the Count and Henry. In Book 3, there is a deep conversation between the priest and Henry, covered in some depth in the previous podcast. One of topics was who would win the war, and the "answer" was no one wins wars. Now, we have the conversation with the urbane, wise agnostic who says the Italians will win. Is the Count being ironic? Is he being tactful to a younger person who has fought for the Italians? The interpretation is left to the reader. I want to suggest that the Count, who doesn't embrace faith, still argues for meaning in the world through style and substance. He likes the world, he embraces it, and he wants to live forever. He serves as another kind of contrast to Henry's disillusionment but it's really a well done contrast to compare the way Hemingway works it in comparison to the conversation with the Priest.
I have been continually surprised by how much I love this book. I have an inkling that I was supposed to read it in college and didn't (oops), thinking to myself I'd already read enough Hemingway and what was one more? I've converted, unless part 5 takes a deep dive it's going to end up my favorite of his novels.
The juxtaposition of Catherine's pregnancy against the very very old man who plays billiards was brilliant in this section; humanity's vastness and Frederic in the middle, unsure of where he stands, destabilized by the worst thing humans can experience (war).
"The happy section" - I like it. Another contender could be: "Escape and escapism". A theme which runs into the next couple chapters too.
Is Catherine particularly escapist?
At the beginning of the book, they both pretend their relationship is something it isn't, but Catherine especially seems to use it to avoid a difficult reality.
Even now, they act married though they're not.
They both have to pretend, but his masquerade is prompted by a reality of the war. The both escape, but the process is much more painful for him.
In the next couple of chapters (slight spoiler alert) they're living happily together, but it's in a kind of dream world.
The baby growing in her is an uncomfortable reminder of reality. But again, Catherine seems to want to ignore the inevitable: She hasn't bought things for baby, she keeps doing activities that might be dangerous for the unborn, and she seems mostly concerned with getting her figure back after the birth.
At first I thought they were both running from reality, but Frederic seems to confront it or at least wrestle with it a bit more.
Yes. I felt they had the courage and yearning to escape the horrors/ realities of the war. The really wanted something less devastating, more “normalized “. I felt that that was ok. They were surviving.
oooh ... this idea of lace ...
When you’re reading, do you every “recycle” settings in your head? For me, the setting for the hotel interior in part 4 is the same hotel interior my brain created for A Gentleman in Moscow, and I enjoyed the revisit even though the stories are quite different.
I didn't find this to be the happy section of the book, I have to admit, although there is a release from tension and it's not sad. But rather, I thought that the one of the key points in Book 4 was the part that was read in the podcast, the conversation and billiards game between the Count and Henry. In Book 3, there is a deep conversation between the priest and Henry, covered in some depth in the previous podcast. One of topics was who would win the war, and the "answer" was no one wins wars. Now, we have the conversation with the urbane, wise agnostic who says the Italians will win. Is the Count being ironic? Is he being tactful to a younger person who has fought for the Italians? The interpretation is left to the reader. I want to suggest that the Count, who doesn't embrace faith, still argues for meaning in the world through style and substance. He likes the world, he embraces it, and he wants to live forever. He serves as another kind of contrast to Henry's disillusionment but it's really a well done contrast to compare the way Hemingway works it in comparison to the conversation with the Priest.
Sean, your comment on prayers being timey-wimely was amazing. As God exists outside of time, grace does not need to flow chronologically. Love it.
I have been continually surprised by how much I love this book. I have an inkling that I was supposed to read it in college and didn't (oops), thinking to myself I'd already read enough Hemingway and what was one more? I've converted, unless part 5 takes a deep dive it's going to end up my favorite of his novels.
The juxtaposition of Catherine's pregnancy against the very very old man who plays billiards was brilliant in this section; humanity's vastness and Frederic in the middle, unsure of where he stands, destabilized by the worst thing humans can experience (war).
Desperation, that is the word I was searching for to describe pretty much the whole book.
"The happy section" - I like it. Another contender could be: "Escape and escapism". A theme which runs into the next couple chapters too.
Is Catherine particularly escapist?
At the beginning of the book, they both pretend their relationship is something it isn't, but Catherine especially seems to use it to avoid a difficult reality.
Even now, they act married though they're not.
They both have to pretend, but his masquerade is prompted by a reality of the war. The both escape, but the process is much more painful for him.
In the next couple of chapters (slight spoiler alert) they're living happily together, but it's in a kind of dream world.
The baby growing in her is an uncomfortable reminder of reality. But again, Catherine seems to want to ignore the inevitable: She hasn't bought things for baby, she keeps doing activities that might be dangerous for the unborn, and she seems mostly concerned with getting her figure back after the birth.
At first I thought they were both running from reality, but Frederic seems to confront it or at least wrestle with it a bit more.
Yes. I felt they had the courage and yearning to escape the horrors/ realities of the war. The really wanted something less devastating, more “normalized “. I felt that that was ok. They were surviving.
I like your sympathy! Heidi keeps telling us to have some
More empathy as opposed to sympathy I think. 😊